Episode 28 – How to get through the early side hustle stages, with Artie Freeman (transcript)

Shontavia Johnson (00:00):

What’s up, y’all. Welcome to The Shontavia Show, where my goal is to help you start a business based on your life’s vision. This ain’t gonna be your daddy’s business advice. I’m laser focused on entrepreneurship in the 21st century, vision and breaking the traditional mold. If you can get with that, you can get with me, be sure to visit shontavia.com for more episodes, blog posts, and other content. Thank you for listening. The show starts now.

Shontavia Johnson (00:28):

What’s up everybody? I’m Shontavia Johnson and this is another episode of the Shontavia Show where I want to inspire you to start a business based on your life’s vision and I am really, really excited to have with me today, Mr Artie Freeman. Thank you for being here Artie. Artie is an early stage entrepreneur. He’s the cofounder of Ferguson and Freeman Affiliated Company, which is an apparel company based here in Greenville, South Carolina.

Shontavia Johnson (00:57):

Artie and I met because his wife braids my hair and Artie was, I don’t know, you came by or something, we were talking about how I was starting this new podcast and I mentioned what was happening with the podcast and how I would talk sometimes on my own and have guests and he, without invitation, suggested to me that I shouldn’t just have like experts and that kind of thing, but also have like people who are really in the middle of starting their companies, new entrepreneurs, early stage entrepreneurs, wannabe entrepreneurs. So I took your suggestion even though I did not ask for it, but it was a good suggestion.

Artie Freeman (01:36):

I appreciate it. And I expect that 20%.

Shontavia Johnson (01:37):

Well Artie we are going to talk about that part–you should have gotten it in writing.

Artie Freeman (01:45):

That’s what I’m about to learn about.

Shontavia Johnson (01:46):

Hey Amen to that. So before we get into the conversation, let me tell you a little bit about Artie and how he came to be the cofounder of Ferguson and Freeman Affiliated Apparel.

Shontavia Johnson (01:56):

He’s wearing his shirt right now, so make sure you plug your shirt. Hold your jacket open a little bit so the people can see it. For those who are watching the video. If you’re listening via podcast, then you know you have to go to YouTube or come to shontavia.com to see the shirt.

Shontavia Johnson (02:11):

So Artie has always appreciated the impact that wardrobe has on the outlook of the wearer. From a very early age Artie has told me that he started making bow ties at a very early age and is very talented in this space. He is very connected to fashion and feels that fashion is the way you can greet the world without saying anything in silence. And he has described his style as innovatively nostalgic, which I love. Artie has a passion for people and quality and what he wants to do in his company is provide a platform where both of those things can mesh together. So thank you for being here Artie.

Artie Freeman (02:49):

Again, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Shontavia Johnson (02:52):

Well, I do too. I’m so glad that we could do this and I, you know, I was glad you gave me some advice. Because I was thinking, Oh, well I can do this and I can do this. But it’s good to hear from people about what they really need.

Artie Freeman (03:04):

No, I appreciate the fact that you’re not only knowledgeable about things, obviously successful, but you’re approachable. And so I feel comfortable being able to say, Hey, what do you think about this idea and the fact that you took it seriously and we’re here today and it says, speaks a lot, speaks volumes to to the type of person you are. So I appreciate you having me.

Shontavia Johnson (03:26):

Well, thank you. Alright, so Artie, let’s talk a little about you, where you’re from and how we got here. So where are you from?

Artie Freeman (03:32):

I’m from Arkansas. A small town called Dumas, Arkansas is where I was born and raised. A lot of people say, well, how did you get all the way to South Carolina? And I always tell them, it has to be a woman involved in order to get out here. But so from, from there we moved here not long after we got married and we’ve been here ever since. As far as fashion is concerned, I, I recall when I was about five or six years old, I, I think that’s the first time I remember seeing myself in the mirror and my daddy had come over and he put my clothes on me getting us ready for school. And I looked in the mirror and I said, man, I kind of liked the way that looks. And ever since then I just wanted to get that feeling. That’s why I say nostalgic. Nostalgia to me is more than just a memory recalling something, to me, nostalgia is a feeling or an emotion. And I think that’s one way through wardrobe is a good way to express oneself. So that’s how I got started in that regard into fashion. That’s where my love started.

Shontavia Johnson (04:35):

At five years old. How do you remember that?

Artie Freeman (04:38):

Very few memories from being at that age. But that was one. And I think it was, it was easy to remember that one because I tried to recreate that feeling and that emotion every day that I got dressed from then on.

Shontavia Johnson (04:52):

Oh, that’s amazing. So how do you go from being that five year old kid with your dad looking in the mirror to saying, Hmm, I could really make money doing this. I could start a business, I could be an entrepreneur.

Artie Freeman (05:02):

It was actually a a, they say necessity is the mother of invention. Oftentimes I would go to the, to the clothing stores and I was unable to find exactly what I was looking for. Even if they had the product, they didn’t have the different color combinations that I was wanting. The different style or whatever the case may be. And then also it was the fact that you couldn’t always, growing up the way I did, we couldn’t always afford everything that we wanted. And so when I, I, it was one time I wanted to wear something but I couldn’t find it or I didn’t have time to get it. And so I said, you know what, I’m going to make it. And so I went across the street to my neighbor’s house, cause I saw her with a sewing machine one day and I said, Hey, can I borrow your sewing machine? And she said, do you know how to sew? I said no, but I can figure it out. And so she brought it over and that’s where it started. I started making pocket squares. And then one of my friends who really liked my pocket square and said, Hey, you should make me a bowtie. I said I don’t know how. And uone day I sat down to figure out how to do that. And that’s where it gets started.

Shontavia Johnson (06:06):

So you’re self-taught?

Artie Freeman (06:07):

Yes.

Shontavia Johnson (06:08):

So this is, you know, I imagine being a person who you sew.

Artie Freeman (06:16):

Yes.

Shontavia Johnson (06:16):

You are a black man from Dumas, Arkansas. So how did you decide that this is what you were going to do and how did you decide to, you know, turn this into a business, particularly when it’s something that I would imagine is largely woman dominated or female driven?

Artie Freeman (06:35):

What happened is because I know what I want and it turns out that I used to, and still do help not only men, but a lot of women get their wardrobe together. Even when my sisters were coming up, I would pick out their outfits, iron their clothes and set them up. But I just wanted to do it. And so then when individuals started seeing what I was wearing, they appreciated it and then they started asking for it. So that’s how I got into it. I wasn’t necessarily thinking that, okay, this is a market or an area that I won’t be able to tap into because I’m a man. I just wanted to do what I wanted to do, but I didn’t have the intent of influencing someone else or inspiring someone else. That just came along with it, if that makes any sense.

Shontavia Johnson (07:19):

No, it does. It does. So and I have talked about in the past that you started out making bow ties, making pocket squares and doing that custom. Right. Everything from start to finish. Right. And what happened? So it sounded like you got to the point where that became frustrating.

Artie Freeman (07:36):

It was frustrating because when I started, I was always cared about people getting what they want. I wanted you to get something from me that you loved and I wanted you to always want to wear it. You know what I mean? Even now with t-shirts, when I make you a t-shirt, I want it to be your favorite one. I want it to make you feel good. And so for that reason, the only way I felt that I could make a person love what I gave them or provided for them was if they had a part in it coming together, that was a good thing for them. But from a business standpoint, it makes it very difficult for the person producing it because people aren’t always easy to get in touch with. And then everybody has their own little tweak that they want to make to it. And so I’ll spend a lot of time and money trying to give a person what they want, but it wasn’t paying off in the long run.

Shontavia Johnson (08:27):

So we, you know, talk about this a lot with entrepreneurs that you know, you want to do something that’s scalable where it’s not like always you one-on-one doing a particular thing. So it sounds like you learned that lesson the hard way. You had to pivot to do something else. So talk a little bit about Affiliated and what you do with the t-shirts. You mentioned that before.

Artie Freeman (08:47):

Well, I’ve always wanted what I wanted, even when I would see air brush guys in the mall, instead of buying a shirt for an event, I would just come up with a design and take it to them. And so I said, well, I’m gonna do the same thing with t-shirts. But I found that it was way too expensive to do that constantly. And so I started investigating how much it would cost for me to do it on my own. And one of my very close friends, really close associates said, Hey, if you get started let me know, I’d like to be a part of it. And that’s Ferguson. And so that’s where we started and we kind of bumped into or ran into some of those same hurdles trying to do custom things for individuals. But it got difficult because everybody wants to tweak it a certain way. And so having a conversation with you, I remember one time you said you need to focus, you know find that individual that you’re trying to provide for, who is the ideal person to buy your product, and make something for them. That was some of the best advice I’ve ever had. So I already you said even give them a name, but fortunately I already knew their name.

Shontavia Johnson (09:56):

That’s right. You knew who the person was already. That’s awesome. So what Artie is talking about is, so Artie has lots of ideas. He’s a creative, he makes bow ties, he makes shirts, he does all this different stuff. And he was at one point, it seemed like trying to do a lot of those things all at once. So we talked a lot about focusing on one specific thing and identifying who that customer is, that ideal customer. We’ve talked about it on the podcast a little, finding that ideal customer so that you can make things that that person loves and identify who that person is. And I’ve heard a consultant say a couple of times that if you’re talking to everybody, you’re talking to nobody. Because you can’t be, you can’t have that conversation where I know this is the shirt I want. Right. And that’s that feeling you’re trying to create.

Artie Freeman (10:47):

Exactly.

Shontavia Johnson (10:48):

So what are some of your other frustrations? Where are you in the business, I guess is my first question. Where are you in terms of sales and what you’re trying to do?

Artie Freeman (10:55):

So again, we find ourselves at ground zero which is okay because I’m taking what I’ve learned, some of the advice I’ve gotten from you, and starting from there. So we’re working on marketing products and simplifying the products because like you said, and you’ve seen a number of the different designs that I have but it, you can’t provide all of those things for everyone. Trying to have inventory so that you can provide what a person wants at the drop of a dime is very difficult. So we’re, we’re just starting fresh. We’ve taken two of our most popular designs and that’s what we’re going to go with.

Shontavia Johnson (11:31):

Oh, that’s brilliant. That’s brilliant. Okay, so you’re in the revising, revamping, the startup phase. What are your biggest frustrations right now as you’re starting over with, you’re not even really starting over, but pivoting again in your company.

Artie Freeman (11:47):

Biggest frustration is, would be, getting it in the hands, in the eyes of the people who you think would be interested in it. You have social media, but it’s so difficult trying to find a way to market it that’s going to be successful. Everybody in the world seems to be on social media and everybody has a great idea. So trying to have that identity, you know, and set yourself apart as being different and unique, but at the same time, not so different that it’s weird, you know? So that’s what I’m, that’s what I’m working on right now.

Shontavia Johnson (12:23):

You don’t want a weird t-shirt.

Shontavia Johnson (12:26):

No, that’s, that’s really interesting. So you have a partner a business partner and you, you have a vision. You’ve been doing this for a while. Is he also in the apparel industry? Is he a person who knows a lot about this stuff? What is the balance between the two of you?

Artie Freeman (12:44):

That’s a good question because when, anytime you add another person, you add another dynamic. And the thing I love about my partner is that he’s good with he’s willing to compromise. We do have different views about seven, well about eight to 10 years older than he is. So our, our style is a little bit different, but we try to use our differences to reach a larger audience. So individuals around my age group I can appeal to them. And so actually Affiliated is this actual shirt that I’m wearing now is more so my idea. His is, is one that we call, have called Young Bull, which people will be able to see that on the Instagram account when we start marketing on a larger scale. So that is one of the challenges, trying to find that balance, agreeing on things because it is both of our money that we’re investing, right. And so it can’t be all my way, can’t be all his way. So we have to figure out when we do need to compromise or when I just need to acquiesce to go with what he thinks and vice versa. And so that’s one of the challenges. But I think we do that well because we have a respect for one another.

Shontavia Johnson (13:53):

So figuring out that balance is tough. Are there other things? So you talked about marketing and social media and business. Have you thought about like your copyrights, how you protect all those things?

Artie Freeman (14:07):

One of the main things I’m concerned about because when you have a good idea, you’re thinking, okay, I need to keep this a secret. But it’s hard to promote it if you’re keeping it a secret, but you’re afraid if you’re not bankrolled so to speak, that someone who sees it and has the finances to take it to the next level, will just do whatever they want with it. So that’s one of my biggest fears right there. That’s one of the biggest challenges. Okay, how do we copyright this or trademark this or whatever the case may be. Without losing what we’ve invested into it already. And so that’s one of the things I’m really concerned about.

Shontavia Johnson (14:47):

Okay, so how are you going to solve that? How are you gonna do that–

Artie Freeman (14:53):

That’s why I’m here.

Shontavia Johnson (14:53):

Why don’t we do that? Why don’t we give some advice then? I mean this is– Alright. So I am not your lawyer. I am giving you information, not advice. Let me give you the, you know, y’all don’t take my law license, I’m just giving him some information about some of this stuff. But so this is interesting. So you have t-shirts, you have designs on the shirts and what you and I have talked about is how, in fash– fashion is actually really hard with copyrights because at least in the United States, the Copyright Office does not really allow you to copyright fashion designs on their own unless they can stand apart from whatever your fashion is. And so like from your perspective, you showed me some of your shirts in the past, some of your designs and one of the things we talked about was in the United States, once you’ve designed something, you actually don’t have to register that thing with the copyright office to have a copyright in the US. So even if you never, you know, filed a registration with the United States Copyright Office, you have a copyright in that thing.

Shontavia Johnson (15:56):

Now there’s some benefits to registering. So like the designs you’ve showed me and maybe even the one you have there, there’s probably something copyrightable in there. So already you have some protection. Now for your company, probably would make sense with the designs is to register your copyrighted work with the Copyright Office. That’s like, in most cases, less than $70 if you do it on your own. If you go to copyright.gov. And having that kind of strategy is so important because what you said, particularly if you’re going to be online, because anybody can copy and paste your picture and copy that shirt maybe. But if you have a copyright in the design, then at least what you have in the US is the right to reach out to their person, send them a cease and desist letter and keep it pushing. And then if they don’t stop, then you have to file a lawsuit maybe.

Shontavia Johnson (16:48):

But there are some things you can do that don’t cost a ton of money. And I think that’s one thing that people overlook about intellectual property when you talk about copyrights in particular. Because if you do it on your own, which you know, some people can, one of the best resources I know about if you’re trying to do it on your own is a resource through NOLO, N. O. L. O. And they walk you through step by step how to file a copyright application for your work. And doing that is one of the best things you can do. And it doesn’t have to be cost prohibitive. Like I said, if you do it on your own, it’s probably less than $70 a lawyer is probably going to charge you a few hundred dollars but not necessarily cost prohibitive if you’re selling products, you know, and if you believe in your work, so you have options, you have lots of options.

Artie Freeman (17:35):

And that’s the thing. That’s what a lot of people are concerned about. How do we make what we’re doing official and we protect our brand and that’s what we need.

Shontavia Johnson (17:47):

Yeah. Yeah. So copyrights, copyrights are one thing. The trademarks. So even like with your shirt, so y’all saw the shirt earlier, if you’re listening on the podcast, I’ll drop a link in the show notes so you can see the shirts. But trademark is another thing. So in the United States with trademarks, even, once you start selling with the logo and all that on it, you’d have a trademark. It’s not a very strong trademark, but you have one. And I say it’s not a strong trademark because in the U.S. At least where you have trademark protection is where you have physically sold products. So like if you’re selling products in Greenville, you probably are acquiring trademark rights in Greenville.

Shontavia Johnson (18:27):

The state has a pretty cheap trademark application that you can file through the South Carolina Secretary of State’s office. Also less than a hundred dollars I think that might even be less than $50 then you’re protected around the state. Federal trademark application, probably less than $300 or $400 if you do it yourself. So with trademarks, federal trademark applications, I often suggest you don’t do on your own because of the, you know, just the, the applications are deceivingly complicated, but there are steps you can take in the interim that are cheap or free that allow you to at least start the, or get on the path. Federal trademark protection, that was probably the best, especially if you’re online. It’s going to cost you a little bit, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars either. But having a strategy is important.

Shontavia Johnson (19:24):

Having a good strategy, but you guys have a great model in my opinion because you know, you’ve got these shirts, these designs that appeal to different people. You know, I think who your ideal customer is now you can start talking to those people directly. I don’t know. You have good. I think you have a good frame for what you’re trying to do.

Artie Freeman (19:46):

We appreciate that.

Shontavia Johnson (19:47):

Yeah. Other frustrations? Are there other frustrations? So for people who are listening who want to start a business or have started and they are thinking about all these things that they need questions or they have questions about, what are the other things that you guys are thinking about in your business right now?

Artie Freeman (20:04):

My, one of my concerns is being able to, to provide for the demand. Let’s say we all want to be successful. We want people to– the orders to start coming in. But when you have a person who’s passionate about what they’re doing, like myself you want to put your hand on every piece because you want to, you want to do your own quality control, but I think that’s impossible if you intend to be successful. So one of my fears is what will, how do I – fears and concerns – is how do I care for the demand if and when it comes? Well, let’s say when it comes how do I go about doing that and how do I partner with somebody without losing a lot of the control and in an affordable way? Because I think that’s what most people who are starting out is, are concerned about being able to do it affordably.

Shontavia Johnson (20:56):

Yeah. So what does your business partner do? What is his background? Where does he fit with all of this? Because it seems like you have another person.

Artie Freeman (21:06):

Yes. He he works full time like I do.

Shontavia Johnson (21:09):

Oh so you both work full time.

Artie Freeman (21:11):

We both work. Yes. Yes.

Shontavia Johnson (21:12):

This is the side hustle on the way to the main hustle.

Artie Freeman (21:16):

Exactly. Exactly. And so that’s the big, that’s one of the biggest things is being able to devote the funds that you already need to care for everyday things, the necessities of life and having the time to give to it and making sure you’re protecting it. All of those things are big concerns for us.

Shontavia Johnson (21:35):

Oh man, that’s tough. Alright, so you gonna make me work for it today, Artie. I should have asked you to pay on the way in.

Artie Freeman (21:44):

This is for the people.

Shontavia Johnson (21:45):

Time is a big one for a lot of people, right? Especially when you were working full time. You mentioned you’re married. I know you have a child, you’re a parent too, so there’s a lot to balance. What I have often suggested to clients who are coming through the door, brand new, who probably have full time jobs, is is there a way you can devote an hour a day, carve out that hour, look at your day, figure out all the things you’re doing each day. Are you scrolling through social media? Are you spending time doing whatever you’re doing? Can you pull back one hour a day to devote since both of you work full time.

Shontavia Johnson (22:29):

I had another actually guest on the show recently who talked about how when she, before she went out full time as an entrepreneur, one of the things she did was she’d take days off from her day job and devote that full day to her side hustle, which was a side hustle then. And so then she had– she could wake up in the morning and literally on that day off, do those things in the business that needed to be done that you know when you’re getting off at five or six or whatever, you have a spouse, you have a child, you know those things are tough. So that would be one suggestion in terms of the time, like devoting consistently an hour a day when you have those days off, take a day and literally just focus on the business.

Shontavia Johnson (23:14):

In terms of the demand, which I know you’re in the process of building that demand right now, but are there like companies that will white label things for you? You know where you have the copyright in the design, someone else is making and shipping and doing all those things that you’re doing probably now. Every day.. And I don’t know if those things are possible. Have you looked into that kind of thing?

Artie Freeman (23:40):

There are some companies who can do it. There again, my main concern is will they do it the way that I would do it? Because the last thing I want is a complaint from a client. Especially since I want them to be happy about the product. I think it only takes one bad review, you know, or one bad experience with a person and now they no longer want to deal with you as a company. They go on to let’s say Amazon and order your product and there’s a bad review. They give you one star just so they could say, I wish I had gave you, I can give you zero stars. That effects how the public views you now. And so that’s my main con– that’s one of the concerns as far as outsourcing is concerned. Will you show each product the love that I would show it, will it be quality the way that I expected? The same thing that I would give if it came off of my own press, so to speak. So that’s one of them.

Shontavia Johnson (24:33):

Oh that’s tough. I mean, but you’re one person. You can’t be at a press making 12,000 shirts. Probably. But I imagine there are some ethical companies, some companies who will send you products. I mean, you could randomly order products from them that are your own products to see are they, when it’s not, you know, me requesting it but me as a faceless, nameless customer, does it meet that same level of quality– is a suggestion. The other thing that I want to mention, because I love that you said this because I hear various iterations of this from so many people. And that is, you know, they’re scared of that bad review. They’re afraid of like that one instance where they really mess up and they think that’s gonna like ruin everything they’ve worked so hard for. But I have two examples that have happened recently, at least in, in 2019 last year in 2019 and the first was the release of Disney Plus.

Shontavia Johnson (25:31):

Did you, are you familiar with Disney Plus. So, Disney Plus, Disney, created this new mechanism for getting all of their movies. They have like a new app, new service. So all the old school Disney movies from when we were kids, all the new stuff, all the Marvel stuff. It’s all in one platform. You pay like $6 or $7 a month, you have access to everything. And on the day it released, there were millions of people who could not get on, even though they had paid, even though they had registered and signed up. There were many, many complaints. And then also for the people who could even like login and get on, they couldn’t see all the movies or it didn’t work with their televisions or whatever. So the first day Disney released this product in the United States and it was one other country.

Shontavia Johnson (26:21):

I can’t remember the other country. There were all these problems, all these complaints. You know how many people signed up for Disney plus that first day, 10 million. More than 10 million, you know. So those bad reviews didn’t really impact– I signed up a week later knowing all these problems that happened, right? Because I wanted that product. And I think you hear people talk a lot about how, you know they want stuff to be perfect and nothing’s perfect, right? And you will work five years trying to get something perfect and it’s never going to be perfect. Tesla released their new truck in 2019 and they tried to, like, they created these windows that were supposed to be destruction proof. And on the stage when Elon Musk released the truck, he threw those balls, he threw some balls at the windows, both of them shattered. And that was the release.

Shontavia Johnson (27:08):

They still got like a hundred thousand people signing up to buy this truck. So you know, like having a mistake, it’s not going to kill your business. So I would not allow being afraid of one bad review to keep you from looking for ways to scale because you can always find good ways to stay alive. I don’t know. So I have more questions for you. You’re getting all this free advice out of me. No, I’m kidding. But so you have this business you’ve been working on, you’re doing all this amazing work. You have a wife. You have children or child, you have a full time job, how do you balance all these things, because you’re doing a lot, you, you’re building a business. How do you do it?

Artie Freeman (27:48):

One thing, when you have a family, you have to talk to your family, ask them are they getting the time that they need? And so you have to prioritize. And so I give my wife as well as my daughter, the time that they need from me and step away every now and then. And it’s also a difficult thing when you love what you do. If I had the ability to walk away from my job or take off to go spend time with my family, I’d do that all the time. But when I’m in there creating, I’m in my zone and I could lose track of time. And so you don’t check yourself as much as somebody else could or as well as someone else could. So one of the things I do is just ask, you know am I spending too much time doing this? And if so, then we’ll focus on doing something together.

Shontavia Johnson (28:39):

Do you ever feel like you are spending too much time on the business?

Artie Freeman (28:43):

Yes. Yes. To be honest. Yeah. but I think that’s what anyone who does anything they love, you know you can be blinded by passion. Yeah. And so you could think that I’m giving it what it needs in order to get it to the level it needs to be. And so that’s why you just ask your wife and your children are going to be your spouse and your children will be honest with you. Yeah. Yeah.

Shontavia Johnson (29:12):

They will let you know.

Artie Freeman (29:13):

Oh, one other thing, I also like to involve my daughter in the process as well. And so that’s one way we could time. We can spend time together and you never know where good ideas will come from. And so by us doing that together, I’m teaching her entrepreneurship as well as getting some one on one time. And it provides an opportunity for her to talk to me about things that have nothing to do with the business. So it was killing two birds with one stone. I think there’s one way to manage it.

Shontavia Johnson (29:40):

Oh that’s awesome. So how, what does she think? How does she like all of this? Does she have this bone in her body?

Artie Freeman (29:44):

She’s a daddy’s girl. So she likes most of the things that I do, but now she’s a teenager. And I love, one thing I love about it is I try to teach her to be logical. Don’t allow your emotions to affect everything. And so while she wants to please me if she doesn’t like something that I like she’ll say, no, I think you should simply it. I think you’re making it complicated. And so sometimes the designs that I finally come up with, the end result, she has contributed to that. And so I like that. Yeah.

Shontavia Johnson (30:17):

Well that’s awesome. Yeah. I mean, I’ve, I’ve met your daughter in passing. I’ve seen the way you and your wife interact with each other, which is beautiful. It seems like they both are very supportive of what you’re trying to do, but what kind of conversations do you have to have with your wife about this though? Because you said, you know, like you check in with her and say, Hey, are you getting what you need? Sometimes it sounds like maybe you feel like you might not be getting what you need, but how did you, how did you have that conversation with her when you decided you really wanted to do this?

Artie Freeman (30:48):

I told her about all the positives to be honest with you. I said, if we do this, then it’s going to work out this way and then you don’t have to work. But obviously—

Shontavia Johnson (31:04):

I want her to work! She braids my hair.

Artie Freeman (31:08):

That’s her passsion. So my goal is for her to do that only as much as she would like to. But I just told her the positives and, and I was honest with her and told her the negatives as well. And she was, she’s a very supportive woman and so when she saw that I was very interested and she jumped on board I didn’t have to do a whole lot of convincing because she knows I do my research. And so any question that she asked, I either had the answer for it or I would get the answer for it and keep her involved in it. And so that, that way she recognizes that she has her opinion matters. I value what she has to say. And so when a person feels like they’re appreciated, then they don’t have a problem investing. I think that’s a big thing. Even even at a job, you contribute to morale when you make a person a part of the process. And so that’s one thing that helps us. We, we communicate I guess is the easiest way to say it.

Shontavia Johnson (32:07):

Great, great. Cause you know, this is so important. You know, your business can be doing great, but if your family is not good and your people not good, it’s not good. It’s not good. You might be rich, but you’re rich and by yourself. That does not equate to happiness. So that’s, that is good advice for people as they are thinking about these journeys. It’s not just you, it’s you. It’s the people who love you, the people who support you, the people who are with you now, you know, while you’re building. So very good advice. So as you do all of this, as you build, as you grind with your business partner and all of that, what are you worried about? Do you have any fears? Do you have any fears about entrepreneurship, about what happens if you are successful or if you fail? What about all of that? What are you thinking?

Artie Freeman (32:53):

The fears is losing the identity. There’s some people who become successful, they make a lot of compromises and by the time they’re finished, they don’t even recognize the product or they don’t see themselves in it, you know? So I don’t want to lose who we are because we have a goal, we have a focus. So I don’t want to be dictated. I don’t, let’s do one of those.

Shontavia Johnson (33:23):

Okay. So let me ask you again. So as you build and grow your business, are there things you’re worried about? Do you have any fears with respect to this entrepreneurship journey?

Artie Freeman (33:35):

If with success, sometimes you lose a lot of your ability to influence, especially when you start partnering with bigger– partnering with bigger companies. And I don’t want to lose our identity. I want to remain in control because we have a vision and I want to have that. As long as I can, we can portray our vision, then I feel like we have the connection with the audience and that, that we want to have. So that’s one of the things that I’m fearful of is, is losing the amount of control that we have. I know we have to compromise and give up some because everybody has to benefit in a partnership. So that’s one of the things. And I think the other thing that I mentioned is just making sure, and you answered that actually, that I am able to protect what we have invested, protect our image and protect everything that we’ve created. And so and, and being able to stand up in court, so to speak, I don’t want anybody to say, Hey, we were doing something similar. You took this from us. And if their pockets are deeper, then I feel like they have a better chance at winning a case were to come to that. So those are my fears.

Shontavia Johnson (34:48):

So I love that you answered like, sorry, let me try one more time. So I love your honest answer there that you’re worried about what happens when you grow. That’s a big concern when you are growing a business. One of the strategies, and I talk to this– talk about this with my clients a lot–is what is the plan? Are you going to grow and remain the face of the brand? Are you trying to sell to somebody else? Are you, I love that you mentioned your vision. I love that you talked about you know, wanting to protect your work. And I think for many people they kind of assume that this is a really expensive thing to do to get intellectual property, to get copyrights, and trademarks and all of that. And it can be, don’t get me wrong, but to start, it doesn’t have to be, there are things you can do along way to wrap your arms around your work. So that’s great. So as we kind of wrap this up, you mentioned your vision. What is your vision for Affiliated? What is your vision for the work that you do and where do you plan to go?

Artie Freeman (35:51):

Our vision for Affiliated is to provide quality products at a good price point, which is, you know, we were talking about the challenges. Frustrations is being having people recognize you as a formidable company and opponent, so to speak, someone that others will have to compete with. But being able to make it attainable, not cheap. And a lot of people think that you’re afraid to say affordable because people think cheap, but it’s not cheap. It’s quality. And so we want to be able to reach as many people who want to wear the brand. And just to make people feel good about wearing it. I want people to feel like this is me, you know, I want it to be an expression of themselves. And that’s part of my vision.

Shontavia Johnson (36:42):

Oh, that’s awesome. So this is a place where Artie, we disagree a little about price. We’ve talked about this a bit because there will always be people who think if it’s too inexpensive that it’s cheap, they don’t want it. And I, I strongly believe that we should not compete on price. When you have a really good product, whatever the price is, is whatever it is, but your vision is what drives all of that. And so that is part of your vision. And I respect that. I just, you and I do feel a little differently when it comes to price.

Artie Freeman (37:13):

And, and that, that’s one of, that’s why I mentioned it’s a challenge. I agree with what you’re saying. It’s when you have, when you come from the background I come from where your parents couldn’t afford it. You know what I mean? You always have sympathy and you empathize with individuals who would like to wear it, but they can’t because they can’t afford it. But you’re right. And so you, if you, if you don’t value yourself, that’s something that I’ve learned. Other people won’t value you. Right? And so you have to, you have to value your own product and put that tag on it to let people know that you think this much of it in order for them to think that much of it as well. So…

Shontavia Johnson (37:51):

Right. Well, I mean you have great products. I look forward to seeing what happens with them because I’ve seen some of your designs and I think they’re really good. Where can people find you if they want to get the shirt or if they want to connect with you? Where can people find you

Artie Freeman (38:05):

Currently? You can go on to @fandf.official that’s Instagram or you can email me at artiefreeman81@gmail.com that’s artiefreeman81@gmail.com. So those are two ways that you can get in contact with me.

Shontavia Johnson (38:25):

Okay. So the @FandF.Official. That’s the Instagram account to see your shirts and all of that. Alright. Alright, awesome. So y’all go check out Artie’s work Ferguson, Ferguson and Freeman Affiliated Apparel Company. Take a look at what he’s working on. I don’t know if you’re going to get back to bow ties, but I have a husband and a son. You start making bow ties —

Artie Freeman (38:47):

If you’re interested in a bow tie, contact me that way. And we’ll work together. We’ll work something out.

Shontavia Johnson (38:52):

Alright y’all, so if you have more questions about this episode, more questions about being an early stage entrepreneur, head over to shontavia.com leave a comment about this video, about this conversation. If you have questions about anything Artie mentioned, I would love to connect with you and hear more about the things you’re struggling with as a new and early stage entrepreneur. You can also ask other questions. You can also ask whatever you want about how to get started on this entrepreneurial journey, shontavia.com I look forward to hearing from you soon. Thanks.

New Speaker (39:25):

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Shontavia Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to like, subscribe and leave a comment wherever you’re listening. You can find me on social media everywhere, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, and wherever else @ShontaviaJEsq. You can also visit me at shontavia.com to find a transcript of this episode along with other show notes. While you’re there, please be sure to subscribe to my email newsletter.

New Speaker (39:56):

The information shared in this podcast and through my other platforms is designed to educate you about business and entrepreneurship and I love to do this work. While I am a lawyer, though, the information I provide is not legal advice and does not create or constitute an attorney client relationship.

New Speaker (40:15):

The Shontavia Show is a LVRG Incorporated original. The show is recorded on site in South Carolina and produced at Sit N Spin Studio in Greenville, South Carolina. Original music and sound design is by Matt Morgan and Daniel Gregory. Mixing and mastering is by Daniel Gregory and the video is by GVL Media.

Episode 27 – From broke and homeless to billionaire investors: How to diversify Silicon Valley with Arlan Hamilton (transcript)

Episode 26: How to stop overthinking and second-guessing yourself when building your brand (transcript)

(00:04):

Hey everybody, this is Shontavia Johnson and welcome back to another episode of The Shontavia Show where I want to inspire you to build a brand, business and life that you love. It’s Thursday. And what I love to do on Thursday is answer questions from you. If you have a question you’d like me to answer about building a personal brand or starting a business or connecting dots between what you’re doing at work and what you’d like to do, send me an email at askshontavia@gmail.com, that’s askshontavia@gmail.com and you might hear your question and my response on a future episode of the show.

(00:44):

So I have a question today about overthinking, which I’m excited about because I tend to be an overthinker. And this question is about overthinking specifically when writing, so like pitching articles and writing for third parties.

(00:59):

So I’m going to read the question and then give a couple of my thoughts about how this person can stop overthinking and get their writing and their work out there in the public. So here’s the question.

(01:11):

It says, Dear Shontavia, I hope you’re well. Thank you so much for your show. I love listening and it has dramatically improved my outlook with my brand and business. I have a question about overthinking. I would like to get into guest writing to build my brand, including guest blog posts and contributing articles to large news agencies and blogs. My dream is to have a byline at a major newspaper on my topic of expertise, which revolves around weight loss and healthy eating for women in particular, but I get into this tornado of analysis paralysis whenever I think about writing a full article. I’m worried about how I’ll come across to people, especially if I’m loud and wrong.

(01:58):

I read each sentence a hundred times before moving onto the next one and once an article is done, I think it sounds terrible. I probably have 10 or 15 articles saved on my laptop, but I’ve never pitched any of them. Do you have any tips on this? How can I stop overthinking and just do it?

(02:17):

Okay, so this person has to be anonymous and I will just call that person anonymous.

(02:22):

I really like this question because I tend to be an overthinker too. I will read and reread and delete and edit things to death and one of the reason I chose this question is because this is me. It certainly was me probably two or three years ago. It’s still me now to a lesser extent. I figured out some strategies that I’ll suggest to you. So one of the first things I’d suggest is go listen to one of my older podcast episodes about putting yourself out there.

(02:50):

I’ll drop a link in the show notes, but that article is really where I started with getting out of like overthinking and talking myself out of doing things that would really grow my brand and help me take things to the next level. And when you go back and listen to that episode, what you’ll find is I gave three suggestions that I won’t walk through all of them here because there’s a whole episode about it already.

(03:15):

But what I’ll say quickly is one of my first suggestions was give yourself grace because things are not going to be perfect. They don’t have to be. And you have to really just give yourself a little time, space and grace to start wherever you are right now. So that was number one. Number two, starting with your strengths. So I love that you already have what sounds like a really dynamic topic that lots of people are interested in: weight loss and eating healthy for women.

(03:44):

So you already have a really good starting place and starting from your strengths within that topic or industry will be important. And then number three, get over it and just do it anyway. And I think that’s really where you are right now, anonymous, figuring out how to get over it so you can just take advantage of the knowledge and the expertise that you’ve created, and not just for you but for all the people who really, really need your help and your guidance and advice. So again, I’ll drop a link in the show notes to that episode so you can take a listen.

(04:18):

But in addition to those suggestions, I want to give you some specific advice about where you are right now with your writing because that’s really where I started. I think at heart, I’m a teacher and a writer. I love writing, but I was really, really nervous when I started writing publicly to put my work out there.

(04:40):

I remember, this might’ve been 10 years ago, I wrote an article in a relatively large newspaper and while I liked it, I thought the points the I made were great. I got terrible comments and some pushback from people who even reached out to my then-employer who didn’t like what I had to say. And that was really hard because particularly at that time I was just getting started. It was one of the first things I wrote and there were people who didn’t like it. And I had to really kind of deal with it. But I was actually… Today I was glad that, or I am glad that I went through that because I survived it. The world didn’t end. My job didn’t stop, nothing stopped really because I got some mean comments on the internet. And so that’s a really hard thing. I know for people, particularly folks who, writing is their craft and their knowledge that they have, they feel so strongly about, but things happen and we move on.

(05:39):

You have to just kind of roll with the punches a little. And so I have been in this space, I’ve gotten negative feedback and so I don’t even want to try to suggest to you that things will be perfect because they won’t, but here’s some suggestions I have so that you can ease into it so that you don’t end up in a situation where you finally published something and things go horribly and you never do it again.

(06:03):

So, um, one of my first suggestions in terms of putting your writing out there is to start with a low stakes article. So one of the first things I ever wrote was an op-ed. I’ll never forget it in the Des Moines Register where I basically was ranting about stupid things I saw people post on Facebook. In particular there was this viral post that was going around that basically said, “Hey, if you put this in your Facebook posts, Facebook won’t be able to own all of your pictures and images. You will own the copyrights in your work. And by making this statement you can disclaim any type of lawsuit Facebook might have against you” or something.

(06:48):

And there were so many things that were wrong about this viral post that I wrote an op-ed in the Des Moines Register about it. Looking back, I mean it might’ve been a little silly, but what I was able to do is take this thing that everybody was doing and talking about and connect it to my expertise, which at the time revolved around intellectual property law and copyright law and the way that people out in the world and on social media interact with both the internet and with law. And so I could explain what the law really was that disputed all of the things that were in this Facebook post. And again, it sounded kind of silly maybe, but it allowed me to dip my toe in the water.

(07:32):

This was not the front page of the New York Times or anything. And I did it. I put myself out there, I wrote this article, it was probably 750 words or something like that, and it actually was pretty well received. So I didn’t get a ton of negative comments or negative feedback or negative push back or anything like that. But people actually kind of liked it. And when I posted it on Facebook and online, a lot of people reached out to me and said, Hey, I didn’t know that. I didn’t think about this particular post that way. And I learned something. And so that allowed me to dip my toe in the water. It was a lower stakes type of thing. It was an op-ed and what was my local newspaper at the time. And that kind of helps. So I suggest that to you, figure out a low stakes way to get your writing out there.

(08:24):

So maybe it’s an op-ed, maybe it’s a letter to the editor. You’re in a field where there are always things in the news and in the media about it. I bet your local newspaper is going to run an article at some point about health and wellness, weight loss for women, and you could respond with your thoughts about that article, agree or disagree, in a letter to the editor. So that’s one of my first suggestions. Start with a low stakes articles. Start small, allow yourself to get some practice and do that as much as you need to. That’s a way where you’re writing something short. You’re taking things that you know the public is interested in because you’ve seen it already in a newspaper or there’s something already happening in the news where you can dip your toe in the water. So that’s the first thing.

(09:14):

The second thing I would suggest is checking out something called The OpEd Project and I think it’s just opedproject.com I’ll drop a link in the show notes when I figure out exactly where the domain name is, but the op-ed project is an organization that scouts and trains underrepresented experts to take thought leadership positions in their industries. So they essentially, help take people whose voices are not always in the media the way that they should be and they train them and help them figure out how to do that.

(09:45):

I have used The OpEd Project a lot. I’ve used a lot of their resources because they do help you gain that confidence that you need to really kind of put yourself out there, and sometimes I think we overthink things because we don’t have that confidence. I know when I don’t feel as good about something that I’m about to do, that’s really when I start to overthink things. But using these resources and tools from the OpEd project, and I imagine there are others out there, that will help you figure out where your lane is out in the media, within your field of health and wellness, and weight loss for women. And that’ll start to give you some of that confidence. So lean on the resources that are available to you to help you figure out how to stop overthinking, and really stopping that overthinking by gaining confidence and learning the training and skills and techniques that will have you out there with your content, with whatever you’ve created.

(10:47):

And like you mentioned, one of the things you’re worried about is maybe being wrong about things, but if you are working with other experts to develop some of your expertise and ensuring that you’re ready and prepared, then you won’t be out there wrong. And even if you are wrong, that’s fine too. There are so many people out there who are loud and wrong that all kinds of things. So I would definitely suggest that you check out The OpEd project.

(11:13):

And then the third thing I would suggest is that you perfect your pitch. So in your email you mentioned that you have already written 10 or 15 different articles that are just sitting on your laptop. So one of my first questions is why have you written all of these article, instead of pitching the idea and then working with editors from wherever it is you’re trying to pitch to create something that ultimately that full article aligns with both your interests and the interest of the media entity that you’re wanting to work with or the blog that you’re wanting to write for.

(11:52):

So if you’re sitting in your house or in your office or whatever, just writing full articles, I’d suggest you take a step back and learn how to pitch an idea to a newspaper or to a blog so that they can give you some external validation that this is a good idea and it’s something we want, or this is something that needs a little bit more refinement, or this is something that maybe you should tweak a little, because this topic isn’t really right for us right now. So instead of spinning your wheels writing full blown articles, try pitching and pitch, for, and I’m sure you know what a pitch is but, but generally speaking, the pitch is just a couple of sentences, three, four, maybe five sentences that you submit to these folks that you’re interested in publishing with. Not a full blown article.

(12:45):

And what it does is answer a couple of questions, three questions, really. It’s the why, like why is this important? Why is this relevant to the news right now? It’s the who cares — who’s interested in the story right now or this piece or whatever it is you’re pitching. And then number three, why are you the right person to publish this article and write this article? So instead of writing a full blown thing, you just craft the idea, you give some good connections to the idea, to your expertise and to you. And then you let folks decide, is this something that we want? I suggest too that you start pitching instead of just writing full-blown articles. And I mentioned The OpEd Project a few minutes ago. They have an entire resource that teaches you how to pitch. And this is something like I was saying a few minutes ago, I’ve used The OpEd Project a lot, and I’ve used The OpEd Project specifically the most with crafting the right pitch.

(13:46):

And I mean I’ve pitched a lot of different media entities. I’ve probably gotten more nos than yeses, but over the years I’ve probably written, I don’t know, 80 or a hundred different articles for other people — that doesn’t even include all the work I’m publishing and writing on my own blog. And it’s hard to do. It’s really, really hard to perfect the pitch. But once you learn how to do it really well, it’s kind of like riding a bike. You learn how to do it really well and then you start to get more yeses and more opportunities to do guest posts and guest write for other people.

(14:20):

So those are my three suggestions for you in addition to what’s in my previous podcast episode about putting yourself out there. (1) Start with something low stakes. (2) Use the resources around you, like The OpEd Project, and then (3) Number three, perfect your pitch.

(14:38):

So I hope something I said was helpful. I hope those suggestions help you get out of the overthinking, specifically when it comes to writing articles for third parties. For everybody else I hope that helped you too. If you still have questions or comments or other insights that I didn’t mention here, or if you disagree with me, make sure you either drop a comment below or shoot me an email at askshontavia@gmail.com. Your question might appear on a future episode of the show. I’d love to hear from you and love to engage with you about this topic and whatever other questions you might have. Thanks.