Shontavia Johnson (00:00):
What’s up, y’all. Welcome to The Shontavia Show, where my goal is to help you start a business based on your life’s vision. This ain’t gonna be your daddy’s business advice. I’m laser focused on entrepreneurship in the 21st century, vision and breaking the traditional mold. If you can get with that, you can get with me, be sure to visit shontavia.com for more episodes, blog posts, and other content. Thank you for listening. The show starts now.
Shontavia Johnson (00:27):
Hey everybody. This is Shontavia Johnson. And welcome to another episode of the Shontavia Show, where I want to inspire you to build a brand business and life that you love. And I am incredibly grateful to have with me today, Professor Wendy Greene. Wendy, thank you so much for being here.
Shontavia Johnson (00:45):
Thank you so much for having me.
Shontavia Johnson (00:47):
Yeah. So I don’t know how many of you have been following the news about natural hair discrimination and all of the things that had been happening these past gosh, couple of years with like Hair Love and with all these viral stories about kids and grownups at work and at school, having issues and being discriminated against on the basis of their natural hair and the way they’re wearing their hair and Professor Greene’s worked for the past, gosh, what is it nearly two decades — has for the past two decades been working to eliminate and ban natural hair discrimination in the workplace and in schools. And the new laws that have been passed in the past six or seven months are founded really on Professor Greene’s work. She is one of the world’s leading legal experts on this global civil rights issue. And she’s been everywhere from Teen Vogue and the Washington Post to BBC World News. And I think I saw an announcement about you at Afropunk.
Shontavia Johnson (01:53):
So you’ve been everywhere. And Professor Greene also has a forthcoming book called Free the Hair: Locking Black Hair to the Civil Rights Movement. And she was recently in conversation with Dr. Angela Davis as part of a virtual event where Professor Greene presented Dr. Davis with the Fred L Shuttlesworth Human Rights Award.
Shontavia Johnson (02:15):
So is there anything Wendy that you don’t do?
Wendy Greene (02:19):
I don’t sleep very much.
Shontavia Johnson (02:23):
You know what I can see that. I could definitely definitely see that. This podcast is primarily about entrepreneurship and building businesses and brands. And the thing that I love about your work is, is you’ve built a movement. You built a movement and a brand and a business or are building a business. You’ve done all of these things. And I’m wondering about your story. How do we get to this place in 2020? What is your story?
Wendy Greene (02:56):
What is my story? Well, we probably don’t have enough time to get into the entire story, but in terms of the Free the Hair movement and campaign, like you’ve mentioned but for me, you know, essentially growing up as a child, of civil rights activists in Columbia, South Carolina, you know, it was pretty much deeply rooted in me to try to redress forms of racial injustice and inequality. And that is what really triggered me to go to law school. And while I was in law school, as you know, I came across, you know, these set of cases that basically declared natural hair discrimination, except for the cases of Afros, not a form of race discrimination that would violate our federal civil rights laws. And from learning about what I felt like was the racial injustice and a form of racial inequality, I just endeavored to learn more and to try to better understand how do we get to this point where our federal courts were not viewing other forms of natural hair discrimination that did not necessarily involve Afros as a form of race discrimination.
Wendy Greene (04:08):
And so when I decided, or really pursued becoming a legal academic and a law professor, I, the first article I wrote was about trying to get the federal courts to understand that discrimination on the basis of mutable characteristics, like our hair, like our accents, our you know, our dress our names even can animate racial discrimination and really tried to bring about a legal paradigm for these federal courts to recognize and appreciate, and ultimately declare that this is race discrimination. So fast forward. I just built a body of legal scholarship. I’ve published several articles, really advocating that natural hair discrimination is a form of race discrimination and that our federal civil rights laws should protect against this discrimination, namely in the workplace, but obviously beyond that. And then that legal scholarship, you know, those legal writings, what I ended up doing was really just you know, from legal publications to actually action.
Wendy Greene (05:22):
And so, so talking with legislators, policy makers, lawyers, judges, students, even, and anyone who will absolutely listen to me from five-year-olds to octogenarians, I will be to, I talk about this issue and really trying to raise public awareness around it so that it can stop on personal levels, but also that it can stop in our professional educational spaces and beyond.
Shontavia Johnson (05:49):
Oh, that’s incredible. So you mentioned being the daughter of civil rights, activists, what is your parents’ story? What their background?
Wendy Greene (05:58):
Sure. So my father, well, both of my parents actually were involved in the civil rights movement during the sixties as college students. And my father was arrested for his participation with sit ins, in Columbia, South Carolina, as a student at Benedict College, which is a historically black college in Columbia. And I learned about his arrest when I was five years old.
Wendy Greene (06:21):
And that’s what really for me and I learned about it by actually reading. I don’t know if I told you this, but I reading a book about African American pioneers and in that book with Thurgood Marshall, and of course, one of the major accomplishments of Thurgood Marshall is that he argued Brown versus Board of Education and other cases to, to desegregate on the basis of race in a lot of spaces. So learning about Thurgood Marshall is then how I learned about Jim Crow and then learned about how my parents grew up and the Jim Crow era and what that looked like and what that experience was like. And that’s when I learned about my father’s participation with sit ins and that he was arrested for his participation and that his case for criminal trespass, his conviction for criminal trespass was overturned by the Supreme Court, United States Supreme Court.
Wendy Greene (07:13):
My mother, likewise participated and supported the sit ins and also was involved in voter registration drives throughout the South, which is, seems pretty commonplace today, but it was actually very dangerous, you know, to travel throughout the South and try to enlist people to vote. So that was her participation, many forms during that time as a college student.
Shontavia Johnson (07:38):
You know, it’s interesting to, to have that background and have that story. My mother integrated her elementary school in South Carolina, small town in South Carolina, and she would tell us these stories as we get older. And I just remember looking at her and learning about this stuff in school a little and learning about it more at home, really, and feeling just this obligation to do well in school, to pursue justice, to work toward the elimination of oppression, even as a small child. And it sounds like you had a very similar experience seeing your parent’s stories and thinking, this is the kind of work I want to continue to do too, which is amazing.
Wendy Greene (08:23):
Absolutely. Yeah. I felt it was so wrong. I remember five years old just feeling like that wasn’t right and I’m going to do something about that.
Shontavia Johnson (08:35):
And do something about it. You did.
Wendy Greene (08:40):
Yeah, exactly. And I thank them for encouraging me, you know, for me to even see myself as a person who could ultimately, you know, maybe not simply become a lawyer, but to become a lawyer to pursue higher education and pursue whatever whatever my, you know, whatever my goals were going to be as a child. You know, at that time I thought I would be a Supreme Court justice or the United States President. Actually I, yeah, I want it to be the first black woman Supreme Court justice. Sadly, that opportunity may still present itself, unfortunately.
Shontavia Johnson (09:19):
That could still be you, and please run for president.
Wendy Greene (09:25):
No, thank you.
Wendy Greene (09:30):
That won’t happen. So yeah, so basically, yeah, very similar stories in terms of our childhood and having that village of people who are encouraging your dreams.
Shontavia Johnson (09:43):
Right, encouraging your dream. And it sounds like you set out on that path as a five year old little girl, you went to law school and you learned about this law that you disagreed with in law school. And you mentioned that your first article that you wrote as a law professor, as law professors and many professors, do they have to write either legal scholarship, if they are law professors or academic scholarship of some sort, depending on the field they’re in, you wrote about this topic.
Shontavia Johnson (10:10):
And how many years has it been since you’ve been really pursuing the elimination of natural hair discrimination? Has it been your entire career since law school and since becoming a law professor?
Wendy Greene (10:25):
Definitely. Yes. So let’s see here I went, so I was a crazy person and went to law school twice. So I got my JD from Tulane and then got my master’s in law from George Washington University School of Law. And during my time as an LLM student, I concentrated on employment discrimination and comparative slavery and race relations law. And it provided me with the opportunity to build my scholarly profile and to write the publication, write the articles that then would lead to publications. And so in 2005 when I entered the program, but I’d already decided what I wanted to write about what, but when I entered the program definitively I, that was the first article I wanted to write.
Wendy Greene (11:08):
And at that time, what was going on was the grooming policies that the NBA had instituted about you know, the players not being able to wear certain jewelry and certain clothing. And of course there was a lot of critique about these groom– grooming or appearance that would be associated with blackness. And and, and, and for me, I felt like really trying to interrogate what, what is it and our legal doctrine that is stopping stopping us from having certain types of civil rights protections as it relates to race discrimination on the basis of appearance, whether it be our clothing, our hair, our hairstyles, hair texture, our names, and so forth. So, yeah, so I wrote the first article, “Title VII: what’s hair and other race-based based characteristics got to do with it?” Starting in 2005, it was published in 2007.
Wendy Greene (12:08):
And since then I have written three or published three more articles under the auspices of what I call grooming codes discrimination. And and now and I’ve presented on grooming codes discrimination and natural hair discrimination all over the world from Brazil to India, to Cuba and Canada. And and like I said to any kind of organization that will hear me, and I also have a class, I think I’m right now, the only class on appearance and grooming codes discrimination. So essentially I’ve built not only the campaign, but also the body of legal publications, but also, megal training, muilt off of this, hnquiry into grooming codes discrimination in particular race based discrimination now.
Shontavia Johnson (12:58):
So I, I, I saw you on that circuit maybe eight, 10 years ago. I don’t know. I think we were either in Boston or Wisconsin or something. I don’t actually remember where, and I heard you talking about this topic then, and I was a brand new law professor didn’t know anything about anything. I was basically just taking all the advice from everybody about what to do and what not to do. And one of the things I had been told not to do suggested multiple times by many colleagues was not write about the intersection of, in my case, intellectual property and entertainment law, and race, and people telling me that could be detrimental to my longterm legal career. But when I saw you talking about those things, it really like the light bulb went off and I saw, well, this person is doing it. I think you were, were you in Alabama at the time?
Wendy Greene (13:49):
I was – I was at Cumberland at the time.
Shontavia Johnson (13:49):
Yes, that’s right. And I was just so motivated to just hear you. I don’t think I ever told you that, or maybe I wrote you a thank you note or something.
Wendy Greene (14:02):
You did! And I loved it.
Shontavia Johnson (14:04):
Great. I was good at thank you notes back then.
Shontavia Johnson (14:08):
I was so motivated by your work, even then to see that you were doing that, writing about those things and talking about those things. I had no clue that it would turn into this entire movement at that time. Did you, did you know that your work would turn into a national movement and new legislation, hashtags, international awards and all these things?
Wendy Greene (14:31):
Well, I, I felt, or at least I hoped that the legal scholarship would ultimately change the law. And I will tell you my initial focus was on the court and namely the federal courts and trying to get them to interpret what I would say appropriately and, and you know, interpret our civil rights laws in a way that really reflected the kinds of discrimination that was happening on the ground. And and to protect and to afford protections against that kind of discrimination.
Wendy Greene (15:08):
So I definitely set out to, to change the law, but again, like I said, it was, you know, the federal courts were really my focus. And and then as you know it’s, it’s challenging to get the federal court to adopt a more progressive and some times expansive ideas about equality. And so my focus did shift and it shifted to legislators and policy makers to lawyers who were taking on these cases that would challenge natural hair discrimination as a form of race discrimination or sometimes race and gender discrimination, depending on the context. And also starting to actually incorporate my work in my teaching. There was a time when I didn’t necessarily teach my own work. And so then that, to me, I felt like I was training the next generation of lawyers to think more critically and deeply about the ways in which grooming and appearance codes do implicate civil rights laws and bring about inequality in workplaces in other spaces.
Wendy Greene (16:18):
So I wrote letters actually to, you know, members of the congressional black caucus back in, I think 2013, 2014, you know, advocating that we needed to reconsider the Civil Rights Act of 1964 particular. And think about amending it in namely to, to, to actually define race that would encompass discrimination on the basis of natural hairstyles and hair texture. The letter writing campaign started in 2013, and then what we see now in 2019, the federal Crown Act was introduced by Congressman or US Representative Cedric Richmond and United States, Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey. And I have to say that I had the immense privilege of being able to co-draft that federal legislation that was introduced. And did I know exactly how all of the pieces to the puzzle, how they were all gonna fit together? No.
Wendy Greene (17:24):
But definitely getting out there and talking to those who are in those positions to actually make the change and, and feeling, I think competent enough competent enough to say, Hey, I think you need to pay attention to this. Is something that I did do. And so it was, you know, shifting your attention. It’s like, okay, if I can’t get this body to do it, we’ll just have to shift to other bodies. And thankfully what has happened is that, you know, obviously state legislators, I think learning about the legal precedent the unfortunate legal precedent where we have you know, natural hair discrimination, not being treated as race discrimination. And as you mentioned before, all of these different types of discrimination that was happening in schools, likewise prompted, you know, the state legislators to act and to fill this gap in civil rights protection that the federal courts had had permitted.
Shontavia Johnson (18:24):
So I feel like you just laid out a blueprint of building a movement and building a brand, because I think today in particular, so many people when they’re building a new thing, no matter what it is, a business, a brand, a whatever, a movement, a website or whatever, they want the first thing to work. And if the first thing doesn’t work, it feels like failure. And it feels like, well, maybe I just shouldn’t do this thing, but your story and the way you just laid that out is such a testament to your resiliency and to being flexible, right? Because not everything’s going to work. And you mentioned starting with the federal courts and that not working. So moving to legislators, moving to policymakers and to public sentiment too, and am I right, that there have now been federal courts that have cited to your work and used your work in other ways. So it still came back around.
Wendy Greene (19:15):
Yeah, it did. Actually I will say there is a, there is a happy ending to this story, is that yes, there– the ninth circuit actually endorsed my definition of race that I proposed in the 2007 piece that I mentioned earlier, which basically that definition of race is what is the definition of race, or at least the formulation of that definition is in the Crown Act. And so you know, I wanted the federal courts to adopt it for the purposes of federal civil rights laws. But what we see is that state legislators and their legislative staff have adopted that definition of race for their particular civil rights laws that we now know as the Crown Act. And then what has happened is that the 9th circuit court of appeals has endorsed the definition of race for the purposes of constitutional decision making and the 11th circuit, even though this, the case that really EEOC vs. Catastrophe Management Solutions, which has, you know, received a lot of attention over the past few years, because it’s the last decision of a federal court that declared discrimination against an African American woman who was wearing dreadlocks and the rescission of a job opportunity or a job because she, adorned dreadlocks did not constitute unlawful race discrimination in violation of our federal civil rights laws.
Wendy Greene (20:41):
So that case when it was decided in 2016, really prompted a lot of media media attention. And I’ve got the attention of a lot of individuals who likewise thought this was an unfair decision. And even though the 11th circuit ruled in that way, what I will say is that they did cite to the article as an authority on the construction of race, the social and legal construction of race. And then later when this case was being decided by the entire 11th circuit we do have for the first time, to my knowledge, three federal court judges who did say– in a dissenting opinion that they had discrimination on the basis of—one’s dreadlocks an African American women’s dreadlocks in this hiring decision could constitute unlawful race termination. And the doctrine they had is that has been used as it’s been, has been, has been serving as a barrier in these cases.
Wendy Greene (21:43):
I have argued in my work that it is a legal fiction. And what I know is is that the federal court, the federal court judges in that dissenting opinion, they likewise called that doctrine “a fiction.” And so I know I’m pretty certain that the article and among other articles that I had written actually shaped that opinion in part, I know this because, or I feel this is because I had you know, thinking about all the different ways that you can attack a problem, right? So I had actually co-drafted an Amicus brief, or a friend of court brief with the NAACP legal defense fund. Dean Angela Onwuachi-Willig who, you know in the case, in the EEOC versus Catastrophe Management Solutions case to, to say, Hey, 11th circuit, please reconsider this case because it is a form of race discrimination, or at least it could be. And and then I was asked by the University of Miami School of Law to write an article about recent or pending 11th circuit cases. Well, this case was still pending when I was asked. And so I said, well, this gives me another opportunity to talk to the court, because I know they’re going to have to read this.
Wendy Greene (23:06):
And they hadn’t yet decided whether or not they were going to hear this case en banc. So I wrote another article and that’s where I called the immutability doctorine, that legal doctrine for the first time a legal fiction and that it was one that needed to be eliminated from our federal civil rights jurisprudence. And then one of the dissenting justices, one of the justices who wrote, who signed on to that dissenting opinion a few months later, was the justice who who actually wrote the introduction to that 11th circuit issue and the University of Miami School of Law law review.
Shontavia Johnson (23:47):
Wow. Okay. So things come back around.
Wendy Greene (23:49):
You’re right, right. So we now at least have three dissenting justices, federal court judge, who who have at least affirmed that you know, natural hair discrimination in all cases, not just limited to those where we have discrimination on the basis of Afros can potentially violate our federal civil rights laws.
Shontavia Johnson (24:11):
Gosh, that’s amazing. So you continue to plug away and you’re building, you’re building that support case by case.
Wendy Greene (24:19):
Right? Right. And that’s what it’s going to take. That’s basically the strategy, you know, our civil rights litigation strategy is that you have to, to, to chip away at it. And every little bit, every case by case, and it’s changed over time, it’s not going to happen overnight at all. And, and trying to do it from all different angles and perspectives too.
Shontavia Johnson (24:42):
So I’d love to explore that a bit because you’ve built this movement based on the law. And based on this definition of race that you’ve crafted, you have talked to any number of legislators, policymakers, and that kind of thing. And the other thing you’ve done in addition to building this movement, which you really, nobody owns a movement. It is a collective opportunity for activity to move in a positive direction.
Shontavia Johnson (25:08):
You’ve also built this brand, the Free the Hair brand. It’s got a hashtag, it’s got a website, it’s got a trademark, it’s got all the trappings of a business. And I wonder how you have built this Free the Hair movement in, in a way that does another thing that we haven’t really explored yet, which is change public sentiment. Because you’ve also done that. And we see, you know, like kids on Ellen who have been what kicked out of school or suspended for wearing dreads. Or you see little girls having their hair unbraided at school or cut by their teachers? So public sentiment is— also shifting. So how have you done both of these things? It seems almost simultaneously building the movement, but then also building the, the brand of Free the Hair.
Wendy Greene (25:58):
Right? So I will say that in terms of building the brand, (a) figuring out what you’re going to call it. And I didn’t, when I called this, you know, Free the Hair. And I think I’ve mentioned this to you before. It really came about very spont– spontaneously, and where one of our mutual friends who’s a law professor, her daughter saw a picture of me with my hair and they actually looked like yours. So when you first met me, my hair looked like your hair. And she was so amazed by it. She says, mommy, I love her free hair. And that in itself really was so inspiring and touching to me. And I think, you know, it was not to sit here and say that you don’t recognize that people, you know, children are looking at you while you’re doing this work, but I think it let her know that you can rock your hair freely.
Wendy Greene (26:51):
And as it is, as it grows out of your head and also occupy the space and that you should be able to do that and occupy the space. And in this space, we’re talking about being, you know, a legal academic or a law professor. So from there, because I love that so much. I said, no, Free the Hair, that’s what we’re going to call this thing. The Free the Hair movement, if you will. And so we sort of started joking about that. And people started saying, Oh, Free the Hair, you can Free the Hair you’re the Free the Hair professor kind of thing. And then as I, you know, as, you know, like through Facebook and then later through Twitter and, and more recently through Instagram, and now through the website anytime that I would promote information or public awareness around grooming codes discrimination, in particular natural hair discrimination whether it be an article or some kind of documentary, or even my own publications, I always use the hashtag #freethehair.
Wendy Greene (27:54):
And so then that hashtag started to be used with, you know, especially among the followers of, you know, the incidences of discrimination that were happening around the world and also making connections with other advocates and activists too, in this space throughout the world, you know, really trying to, to, it’s not just about those people who are in the United States who are doing this work, but I really try to connect with people globally who are doing the work. So for example, I follow Zulaikha Patel. If you know her she’s, she’s like, to me, I call, I told Dr. Davis, my little Angela Davis, you know, South African student who challenged, you know, the grooming policies, the natural hair bans in her private high school. And so I follow her on Instagram. She now follows me back. So, you know, it’s those types of things like really trying to, to connect with those individuals who are part of advancing and advocating for civil rights protections, as well as new policies as it relates to natural hair discrimination.
Wendy Greene (29:08):
And and they started using the hashtag as well. And other folks just, you know, everyday folks who are using the hashtag. And so I would say the power of social media in actually getting outside of my my box a bit in terms of, and also being consistent in, in, in using the hashtag and being consistent in the message that the message, message that you’re trying to send. So now people know if they want to know about this subject matter and what is currently going on, not only in the United States, but around the world, as it pertains to this issue, they know you can go to my social media platforms or you can email me, or you can call me and and I can give you the latest as it relates to that. Yeah. So that’s how it’s come about.
Wendy Greene (30:06):
And yeah, so, I mean, social media has been huge as it relates to that, but also still doing that in person. I don’t want to, you know, really try to erase the importance of in-person. Well, now I know during COVID times it’s more challenging to do that, but really taking those opportunities to talk to any community. So I don’t just speak to just purely legal academic or just academic community speaking, literally to middle schoolers, elementary schoolers, high schoolers as I said you know, community groups that have or retirees, whoever will listen, I’m out here to, to try to promote the message.
Shontavia Johnson (30:52):
So as you do that, as you’re connecting with all these different groups, are there connections between your work and the work, the recent work of Black Lives Matter, and these instances of police brutality against African Americans, are there parallels or connection points where the two movements can learn from each other and share this common interest of improving the lives particularly of African descendants and other black people?
Wendy Greene (31:25):
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. They’re definitely in concert with one another. And in, I imagine that this area of discrimination, may be one that is overlooked as it relates to the demands that Black Lives Matter, black lives matter advocates may be advancing at this point, but it is actually a critical one because essentially when we’re talking about natural hair discrimination, effecting, and systematically effecting African descendants around the world, we’re talking about a long standing form of policing the black body.
Wendy Greene (32:00):
So if we, even, if we go back to the eras of racial slavery our hair was being regulated, you know, it actually signified whether or not we were enslaveable or free. Also our hair was being regulated to signify that we were not free. So if you know, about the Tignon Laws in Louisiana where, you know, women of color in particular African descendant women had to cover their hair. So it could signify their, their socially and politically and legally constructed status as being subordinate or subject legally constructed subjugated status. Right. and then still today we see this, this what I call hyper regulation of black people’s bodies, via our hair, in a number of spaces, and, and more recently and, and were subjected to heightened level of punishment. And because of our natural hair, there’s plenty of studies that talk about black women and men who adorned, who wear natural hairstyles that in, in criminal proceedings, that they may be more likely to get a height– heightened sentence, or an increased sentence than those who have short hair if you’re a man, or if you have straightened hair, if you’re a woman. Right right. So, and if we’re talking about, you know, these pipelines to prison issues, as it relates to our children, we’re being, our children are being subjected to greater levels of punishment. That then lead to you know, you know, that then can potentially lead to this entry into our criminal justice system. And so that’s something else. And then thirdly, more globally, there has been, you know, recent studies, recent re actually a recent article just about two weeks ago that talks about in Brazil, for example. Now there is a, if there is a, an awakening movement similar to what’s going on in terms of natural hair movements and its relationship to black power and Black Lives Matter, it’s even very much a specific part of the Black Lives Matter movement in Brazil.
Wendy Greene (34:18):
And one of the things is that there’s more Afro Brazilians are wearing their natural hairstyles or their natural hair texture and Afros and locks and braids and twists. One of the concerns of Afro-Brazilian parents is that because they’re not only are they being attracted or believe they’re attracted to them, you know, and policing them and in harsher way because of their skin color, but also because of their hair texture. Yeah. So there’s definitely a real vital connection to the Black Lives Matter movement. And I think it’s, and I think it’s absolutely a part of the Black Lives Matter movement. It should be a part of our demand. So that being said, you know, we should be talking with our legislators about passing the Crown Act if they haven’t already, or introducing the Crown Act and even more broadly, our federal legislators, our national legislators because that bill has been introduced. And so we’re, as we’re thinking about the demands, right, and creating the demands for racial equity and namely racial equity equity, as it relates to African descendants, this is a critical part. This legislation is a critical part of that.
Shontavia Johnson (35:31):
So how can people, two questions? How can people do that? I know there’s a petition. I think there’s a petition,
Shontavia Johnson (35:38):
Right? To–
Wendy Greene (35:39):
Yes.
Shontavia Johnson (35:40):
To tell your legislators that you want them to introduce and/or pass this legislation into law. So that’s the first question. And then second question, how can people connect with you? How can they find you work? How can they learn more about Free the Hair?
Wendy Greene (35:55):
Sure. So you can go to the https://www.crowncoalition.com/ or https://www.thecrownact.com/ I believe is the website where the general petition is. And and that is being sponsored by Dove and the Crown Coalition, which is a group of organizations who are supporting the Crown Act among other forms of policies that are affecting, or we’re trying to bring about racial equity. And then you can, you can email your legislators. You can, you know, write your legislators and bring this to their attention. And again, thinking whether or not they have already introduced it or thinking about introducing it, and if not, then that they should start considering and actually do so.
Wendy Greene (36:42):
Right. And you can even create your own petition. You know, there is the one that’s online, but you can, you can do that too and mobilizing and getting your own petition and getting signatures so that the, the, the legislators, the policy makers can see that there is a body of constituents, of their constituents, who are really who are, who are advocating for this legislative change. Another way. So a way to reach me is you can go to freethehair.com, which is the website. And also you can follow me on Twitter at @professordwendy as well as at, on Instagram @professordwendy, and also @freethehairnow on Instagram and Twitter.
Shontavia Johnson (37:27):
Excellent. This was so much fun. I’m so excited we had the opportunity to talk about this, about you actually building a movement and doing what many of us say we want to do, which is change the world. You actually are doing that and have done that. So I just so appreciate the conversation.
Wendy Greene (37:43):
Oh, well, thank you so much again for having me and allowing me to talk about all being Free the Hair it’s such a pleasure, and I’m so glad that we were able to make this happen.
Shontavia Johnson (37:55):
Great. So for those of you who are listening or watching, if you have questions, if you have comments about this particular topic about building movements or building brands, feel free to visit the website at shontavia.com to drop a comment, leave a message about this specific episode. If you’d like to connect with Professor Greene, she’s given you all the various links. I will also drop some links in the show notes to everything she mentioned. If you want to learn more about the free the hair movement about the Crown Act and about ways you can get involved. Thanks.
Shontavia Johnson (38:27):
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Shontavia Show. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to like, subscribe and leave a comment wherever you’re listening. You can find me on social media everywhere, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, and wherever else @ShontaviaJEsq. You can also visit me at shontavia.com to find a transcript of this episode along with other show notes. While you’re there, please be sure to subscribe to my email newsletter.
Shontavia Johnson (38:58):
The information shared in this podcast and through my other platforms is designed to educate you about business and entrepreneurship and I love to do this work. While I am a lawyer, though, the information I provide is not legal advice and does not create or constitute an attorney client relationship.
Shontavia Johnson (39:16):
The Shontavia Show is a LVRG Incorporated original. The show is recorded on site in South Carolina and produced at Sit N Spin Studio in Greenville, South Carolina. Original music and sound design is by Matt Morgan and Daniel Gregory. Mixing and mastering is by Daniel Gregory and the video is by GVL Media.